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Should we kick off Quinn and his insane posse? |
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Chapter 9
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Should we kick off Quinn and his insane posse? |
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From Kitten
Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:12 pm:
The recently
admitted members onto our board have anything but coherent values.
Upon Quinn and his disciples’ entrances it was easy to read
their posts and chuckle, but slowly they became awkwardly muddled. I
took it upon myself to do some research into their so-called genius
forum, which prides itself on trying to dissect wisdom and truth
through philosophical and “religious” meditation.
(Religion is in quotations as they claim to be atheists.) Reading
through their posts and personal sites turned up some interesting—if
not all together disturbing—quotes, passages, and belief
systems.
What I am about to say here should not surprise
them, as they seem to hold that it is easy for a female to grow
horns, sprout hooves, and allow their forked tongue to take over (if
it’s not a built in feature). Thus, I doubt heavily any of them
will appreciate this post *grins*
The first thing I post here
is a blow by blow of a passage written by Mr. Rowden:
“Enlightenment
if the complete absense [sic] of all delusion, not just the big
delusions, not just the ones that make us suffer, but all deluded
concepts.” Thus far a very new-age Buddhist view written in a
confused manner, at least I hope that’s what this is…”Part
of the process by which one casts off these delusions is an
examination of human consciousness, in every sense.” *smiles
and nods slowly,* “This means looking at the masculine and
feminine, the passive and the dominant, the rational and the emotive,
the willful and the merely willing, right down to the last detail.”
A very confused Taoist point, *looks a little worried but brushes it
off* “This much ought be obvious.” *looks confused* if
you say so. “However, it seems that some would have us exclude
the feminine from this process, for reasons which make it all the
more important to scrutinise [sic].” I take it the ‘some’
referred to here include mainly the Quinn church from their other
posts. “Now, some will say that there is a difference between
analysing [sic] the feminine and taking the extra step of rejecting
it. Yes, there is a difference, but when one understands the feminine
one automatically takes the step of rejection, because one sees
clearly the dangers of it in the context of the pursuit of wisdom.”
*looks shocked* Pardon? What type of women have you been fraternizing
with? “And this is the key, the context. For someone with
different values (that is, other than striving for wisdom)
scrutinising [sic] the concept Woman, would possibly be a meaningless
thing to do, and even perhaps a counterproductive thing to do,
especially if one is interested in relationships and sex.”
*looks extremely worried* Oh, but there is more dear reader: “But
striving for wisdom is no ordinary thing.” *smiles and nods in
agreement* Here I thought I could relax; however, the next paragraph
opens: “What I have long since and continue to find interesting
is that the voices of dissent are all but silent when it comes to
articulating the merits of the feminine mind…”
Not
to forget Kevin Solvay's quote which speaks for itself: "So my
first task was, and still is, to get people to a level where they at
least have some respect for reason and truth. Increasingly I realized
the inseparability of reason and masculinity. At the same time I
could not help noticing the increasing feminization of society. The
only course open to me was to attack femininity at the root. My
life's work, I decided, would focus on making people aware of the
shortcomings of femininity and the great benefits of masculinity. For
there to be wise men, there must first be men."
I’m
sorry, I can’t quote any further, and it is just insane
men-nazi ranting. It is obvious from here, and their personal sites
that they have had one to many run-ins with poor representatives of
the opposite sex. They all seem to hold that due to these unfortunate
run-ins and twisted Taoist sayings and beliefs, women hold one back
from wisdom. This is just…wrong. Taoists do say the female
embodies evil with some good: she is the yin. However, this is not to
say women are evil *laughs* that would be a definite misunderstanding
of the philosophy. Taoism holds that the essentials of the yin-yang
school are as follows: a single principle, the Tao, or Great Ultimate
runs the universe. This principle is divided into two opposite
principles, or *turns to Quinn and his cult followers saying slowly*
two values that contest one another in their actions. The yin and
yang accomplish changes in the universe through the five material
agents, or wu hsing, which both produce one another and overcome one
another. Thus, man is just as evil as woman, and they are not
separate systems, this is why the yin-yang circle rotates.
I
am also reminded of what Andy said when I told him of their mistakes
values of the female sex: “Their loathing of women means they
will inherit the worst of Greek philosophy while missing the spirit
of open inquiry which made Greece a world leader in logic during the
Golden age of Pericles.” *laughs and nods in agreement* So
true! He also feels “David Quinn wants a perfect tyranny where
an unreachable elite rules over peons.”
However, it is
not simply the mixed up Taoist system that they hold, they also mix
up Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism…a large mistake in that
they hold to be atheists on their personal pages. Although they seem
to hold Siddhartha was not a religious figure, like the Theravada
Buddhists, they also hold that there exists the “Dharma-body,”
“Body of Bliss,” “Transformation-Body,” and
Nirvana of the Mahayana. *Looks confused again* not to go into
explanation of the confused description of Nirvana they posted under
‘the nature of genius.’
Then there is the thought
flow of logic, reason and Truth…all of which they lack. For us
the sentence: “P OR Q; P; THEREFORE Q” is equal to: “P
OR Q; P; therefore neither P nor Q exist, and the answer is something
I know as I’m a sage…so I’ll run in circles and
dance on tiptoe, and now refer you to a chicken named Martha, which
proves everything I hold to be Ultimate” for them. Quinn and
his cult followers seem to have a messed up version of circular
logic, which in itself is amusing, bewildering, depressing, yet also
impressive to say the least. The Tao Te Ching says “Words of
clarity sound confused,” however, I suppose it takes a true
master of poetry to realize this also implies: words of confusion are
never clear…and therefore, aren’t. It’s all too
obvious that they have read this great work, flipped it, reversed it,
and re-wrote half of it to suit them. Although Quinn claims to be a
sage, he also doesn’t realize that a true sage would never
claim such a status: Lao Tzu, Confucius, and Jesus being three
examples of this fact.
Sergei here points out how Quinn
sounds: This distinction is very useful because it enables the mind
to hone in on the timeless knowledge of the Infinite. Timeless
knowledge of the infinite plus infinite knowledge of the timeless
equals infinite timeless knowledge of the timeless infinite. Also:
“You feel a need to paint me as a kind of insane,
out-of-touch-with-reality, anti-scientific, mentally disturbed
fellow,” no, no, Quinn…we don’t have this need.
And due to your posts, we don’t need to. For some reason you
seem very paranoid and persecuted…you’re not Christ
reborn you know…or didn’t you?
Of course all of
these reflections are coming from one of those he sees “to be
quite, quite mad.” A bi-sexual girl, lipstick lesbian, never
bold enough in his eyes to fully accept my dike masculinity. I’m
simply a woman, capital ‘w,’ quotation marks. I bet he
sees me as some fem-nazi, when really I see him as being the one with
psychological problems concerning females. His first post is quoted
as saying: “no doubt, in turn, most of you will come to see me
as an ignorant simpleton. And so our exchanges will probably peter
out after a few days and I will disappear from this place, never to
be seen again.” Please, do so Quinn and fellow-freaks inc.
He
also says, “I'm not exactly sure why the Coyote invited me to
this forum,” neither are we quite frankly. He must have mistook
you for someone with something intelligent to say, or realized we
would have fun posting things like this. *laughs*
From Andrew Beckwith
Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:02 pm:
Quinn sounds very
much like the Moonies I encountered for the first time when I was in
Boston about 1978-79. I never forgot how one of these people
approached a Saudi friend of mine who shared reminences with me of
both Judaic thinking and Islam. He and I were talking of the
similarities between Moslem and Judaic food practices, and this goon
for want of another word showed up and started to yammer at us about
how the Unification Church would allegedly take care of our earthly
problems if we gave up our 'evil' traditions. My Saudi friend then
point blank asked " If you talk with us, would you ever consider
at least admitting that you may be wrong ? " . The answer was an
unequivocal no, and the Moonie then only escaped being kicked by my
friend because he realized that the Saudi would not take harassment
whole sale from him ( the Moonie).
David Quinn has been even
more obstinate than the Moonie and with less manners. I , Plato, as
well others TRIED to entertain a civil dialogue. But as Kitten aptly
pointed out, once a cult comes in, they will bludgeon those who
disagree with them one way or another.
Having had the
experience with the unification church goon in 1979 and then having
STUDIED them ( the Moonies ) psychologically in a formal setting I
can say that David Quinn will employ the same tactics of harassment
and subliminal intimidation that I saw the Moonies use in the late
1970s and beyond.
NPU is supposed to be a free exchange idea
zone. It works only if the participants make a pro forma commitment
of having minimal intellectual HONESTY . David Quinn spectacularly
fails this test and others which I would think would be a minimalist
standard of consideration for others. Given all this I with regret
openly will ask David Quinn to consider voluntarily ( in a quiet
manner ) withdrawing from this forum.
From David Quinn
Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:21 pm:
Andrew Beckwith, PhD, wrote:
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NPU is supposed to be a free exchange idea zone. It works only if the participants make a pro forma commitment of having minimal intellectual HONESTY . David Quinn spectacularly fails this test and others which I would think would be a minimalist standard of consideration for others. Given all this I with regret openly will ask David Quinn to consider voluntarily ( in a quiet manner ) withdrawing from this forum. |
Having been
cordially invited to this forum by Coyote and participated in lengthy
discussions with various members, I feel that I am now a
fully-fledged member of this forum and thus qualified to make
suggestions for its continued improvement.
If we are indeed
commited to maintaining NPU as a free exchange idea zone, we need to
be wary of Stalinistic urges to obliterate and quash dissenting ideas
that we don't like. Members need to feel they are free to put forward
any opinion they like, no matter how radical or politically-incorrect
it may be, without fear of retribution from an angry lynch-mob.
Otherwise, the forum will only degenerate into a kind of dull
insipidness with everyone continually voicing conventional scripts
and predictable jokes.
Because both Kitten and Andrew
Beckwith, PhD, have expressed the Stalinistic urge to send a
dissenter to "Siberia", despite the fact that the dissenter
in question has been perfectly civil in his discourse and engaged in
rational dialogue at all times, they are seriously endangering the
basic principles of this forum. Thus, I propose that they should both
be kicked off the forum forthwith. Only in this way will the noble
principles of free thought and free speech be preserved for the sake
of our future intellectual development and enjoyment.
From Andrew Beckwith
Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:39 pm:
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Because both Kitten and Andrew Beckwith, PhD, have expressed the Stalinistic urge to send a dissenter to "Siberia", |
Fat chance. I
asked you to consider an orderly withdraw. You cannot read.
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Thus, I propose that they should both be kicked off the forum forthwith. Only in this way will the noble principles of free thought and free speech be preserved for the sake of our future intellectual development and enjoyment. |
I did not ask
you to be kicked out, moron. I asked you to CONSIDER an
orderly withdraw. You are unable to read. Thanks for confirming that
fact.
And, I know you complained to Coyote. I did nothing of
the sort, David. And I have had private E mail sent to me about you
from OTHER NPU members. Everything I did was out in the open. There
are other people in the NPU forum who have their doubts abouty you
and I asked for a voluntarily considered action FROM YOU with no
force other than moral persuasion behind it .
From Kitten
Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:56 pm:
David, I know the
old trick of turning the tables and it's not going to work. I've
lived more than you have, believe me...many can back that up...so a
threat like being forced off NPU doesn't scare me. This is for
several reasons: one, I have been here longer than you have; two, I
have posted on a wide range of subjects; three, I consider many of
the members to be friends, and do not doubt they think of me as such;
four, even if I left I would keep in contact with most of them; five,
I am younger and a better writer, thus showing I have many more
essays, thoughts, and discussions, ahead of me than you do (i.e. I
have more to offer this place than you).
If I receive one
private message, which is not from you or a crazy cult member, to
leave I will graciously do so. *smiles brightly* Bring it on. If
anyone else would like me to leave, just say so…and poof, just
like magic into the thin air of cyber-space.
And just for
clarification, Andy asked you to step down. I asked you to do what
most were thinking: leave now...please. *gives you her winning smile
unsarcastically*
From David Quinn
Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:00 pm:
Andrew Beckwith wrote:
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I did not ask you to be kicked out, moron. I asked you to CONSIDER an orderly withdraw. |
I did consider
it, but rejected it. I've decided to stay despite the fact that most
of the people here are as dull as dishwater and sadly lacking a sense
of humour. Coyote promised me high-quality discussion if I joined
this forum, but all I've received so far is very low-grade academic
wankery and unbridled hysteria. It's been most disappointing, but not
entirely surprising.
I will now ask you to consider leaving
the forum, Mr Beckwith. You clearly drag the forum down with your
absusive manner and lack of reasoned argument in any of your posts.
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And, I know you complained to Coyote. |
You know it, do
you? What a fascinating lie.
I don't know why, but for some
unknown reason, you're telling a stupid lie that is easily checked
and can only result in damage to your own reputation.
And
indeed, you're evidently trying to damage my own reputation with your
scurrilous lying, and so I would like an apology from you. An apology
to the tune of a hundred US dollars (donated to a charity of my
choice) the moment that Coyote confirms the lie should be sufficient.
Care to put your honour where your mouth is?
From M
Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:11 pm
To all,
Please
separate your ideas from your emotions. You weren't invited to whine.
~M~
From Andrew Beckwith
Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:13 pm:
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And, I know you
complained to Coyote. |
I smoked you out
, David. Brilliant. David, you cannot win. I did not have to talk to
Coyote. It fits with your modus operandi. Coward. I knew you were
going to do it. Go run to mama. Now about that REQUEST I made.
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I did consider it, but rejected it. I've decided to stay despite the fact that most of the people here are as dull as dishwater and sadly lacking a sense of humour. |
Hear that NPU ?
Our David Quinn has such a judgemental opinion of us.
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I will now ask you to consider leaving the forum, Mr Brickworth. You clearly drag the forum down with your absusive manner and lack of reasoned argument in any of your posts. |
David, you are
no match for me. You equated the worth of women with dogs. If that is
not abusive, then call me bull winkle. I did not do the same to you.
You brought it on yourself.
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And indeed,
you're evidently trying to damage my own reputation with your
scurrilous lying, and so I would like an apology from you. An
apology to the tune of a hundred US dollars (donated to a
charity of my choice) the moment that Coyote confirms the lie
should be sufficient. |
Temper, temper, temper David. Oh, the philosopher king is upset.
Too bad. Your request is denied. My what a cry baby you are.
From Plato
Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:22 pm:
I have sent the
following letter to Coyote urging the immediate removal of Quinn and
his fellow cult members from NPU.
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Hi Tommy,
I urge you to take a look at the recent correspondence
between David Quinn and the members of this forum. Quinn is a member
of a cult which promotes doctrines contrary to those accepted in
civilized society. I am not even referring to his anti-scientific
views, which he fails to support in any rational manner and is unable
to comprehend contrary views for lack of familiarity with relevant
subjects. I take it for granted that members of this forum are chosen
in such a manner as to be sufficiently competent to grasp the
opposing view and lead a coherent argument.
What I am talking
about here is that these lunatics openly advocate male superiority
based on arguments quite similar to those used by eugenics movements
earlier in this century i.e. there are fewer women in science and
philosophy, that women are emotional and men are reasonable and that
sort of nonsense. While his ridiculous anti-scientific claims are
within the realm of our discussion, his racist claims are outside
that realm. It must be NPU policy from now on that discrimination
based on race, religion, gender and sexual orientation will not be
tolerated from any members. Furthermore, he had personally offended
Kitten and has demanded her removal from the forum, which is
unacceptable.
I might speculate that you brought this lunatic
onto this forum in the first place to spark discussion since it is
usually true that the degree of insanity of one's claims is directly
proportional to the response of the audience. But he has stepped over
the line and thus must be immediately excluded from this forum
together with his fellow cult members Drowden and Solvay. Instead, we
will bring in new members that are capable of leading a rational
intercourse with their fellow human beings, male or female, Christian
or Muslim, gay or straight, white or black.
Thank you,
Sergei Doulatov
From Andrew Beckwith
Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:31 pm:
I 2nd this letter, primarily due to his blatant attacks upon Kitten which lead me to request, politely , a voluntary withdraw from NPU on David Quinns part. His equating the relative worth of women with dogs was by my standards the coup de grace. After that ...
From Peter D
Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:58 am:
The argument often given for not expelling members for outlandish
racist or sexist views is that it infringes free speech but I don´t
believe it is a valid argument here. In society as a whole where each
individual existing in the society is a moral person it is extremely
difficult to justify on moral grounds any restriction on free speech
other than on grounds that the result is an important restiction on
anothers freedom, for example the case of incitement to racist
attacks could be valid grounds but the argument will always be
diffuclt and the onus always on those seeking to restrict free speech
to justify its limitation. Here, however, we are in a private society
which is by definition a sectional interest and so there is no moral
imperative to allow unfettered freedom of speech. In this case enough
is known about the intellectual bankruptsy of eugenics and sexism to
say that it adds nothing to this society to accept its expression.
From Andrew Beckwith
Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:35 am:
Thank
you, Peter. What I am especially concerned about is the brutish aura
of intimidation which David Quinn projects. As it is, I made a call
for a voluntary withdrawl on his part only because of his harassment
of Kitten which verged on levels I have not seen since grade school.
As it is, the philosopher king responded to this with what he THOUGHT
was tit for tat retalitation for my posts but which actually VERY
poorly reflected upon him. To whit, his hysterical denunication of me
allegedly imposing Stalinistic levels of suppression of dissent is
ludicrous when I made it clear in my posts that I was only exerting
moral persuasion. Then, David Quinn followed up on this by accusing
me of 'damaging his reputation' and demanding that I make a payment
of 100 US dollars to a Charity of his choice. This when I made it
clear that I was objecting not to his anti science biases but to his
attacks upon Kitten which the entire NPU forum saw not once but
several times.
It is not our final decision, but when an
adult man in his 40s tries to brow beat a 19 year old woman with
references to women allegedly having the worth of dogs, which is what
David Quinn said, then it is time to clearly say 'enough'. As for
what he said about me ? I am an old flame war veteran of several
years duration, much hated for it in alt.flame, and I am AMUSED by
David Quinns loss of control . Does it scare me? I have dealt with
violent psychopaths before who had to be restrained by the law, and
this is boringly ho hum. But, people 30 years younger than myself (
Kitten ) do NOT have this armor of protection and DO need to be
protected from this invective.
From thebohemian7
Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:30 pm
I guess he has been expelled by now.... His posts appear under "Guest"... What a relief!
End of Chapter 9
